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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jan 27, 2011 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

I think the whole thing was manipulated. I'm re-posting the below from a thread where it went unseen, because I don;t have time to re-write more coherently. but you'll get the drift.

This whole thing is kind of fishy. I have a "wristband" e-mail reservation to buy a copy, but I have not placed that order yet. How many of me did they count as buyers before they declared that the set was sold out?

On a more paranoid track, could they have intentionally intensified the demand by making it impossible to order, then handing out a bunch of wristbands and declaring it sold out - making those of us who have a wristband but who might have been on the fence about handing over $500, immediately say "holy shit, I have a reservation - I'd BETTER buy a copy!"

I don't know about y'all, but I'm feeling really manipulated here

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Poster: advokat Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

I'm one of those with a reservation in the first 3000 and I'm very on the fence about whether I'll do it or not. If I was as evil as I'm often deemed to be, I'd go auction off my code on some other forum. It sure would be nice to see what all the bells and whistles are before laying out the cash since I have most of the shows and my ears are pretty well shot.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

It's a commercial enterprise and therefore it's their job to find ways to manipulate you and so intensify demand in order to maximise their profits. This is a fundamental part of how businesses operate. Really, what's the problem?

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 27, 2011 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

Completely agree. The music archived here is the property of the Gratful Dead. I see no reason why the soundboard recordings from the Europe '72 tour that are archived here should not be pulled. Or any other soundboards of comercially released performances. We have all had plenty of time to aquire them.

Don't want to pony up $450 for the '72 box? Just don't order it. Still want to get your hands on the shows? Learn to torrent or make friends with someone who does.

The only problem I see was the bands failure to prevent greedy opportunists from aquiring multiple units of this release, while some folks who really wanted it got shut out. Pretty short sighted considering the band went to great lengths in order to foil ticket scalpers...

This post was modified by Cliff Hucker on 2011-01-27 19:47:28

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Poster: advokat Date: Jan 27, 2011 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

In 100% agreement with Cliff on this. I posted early on that I was really surprised you could order up to 10 copies. Made no sense - unless looking to resell.

So who wants to buy my place in line to be one of the first 3000? Bidding begins at $500 and continues until February 4th - JUST JOKING!

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jan 27, 2011 1:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

"We have all had plenty of time to aquire them."

Amen. This is friggin' 2011; these shows have been circulating forever. Anyone really into this band and the early 70s should already have most or all of them (and upgrades, and upgrades to our upgrades).

"The only problem I see was the bands failure to prevent greedy opportunists from acquiring multiple units of this release, while some folks who really wanted it got shut out."

Despite your observation about the Fillmore set taking a month to sell out, I honestly can't imagine they didn't anticipate the rapid response to this set. Unlike the Fillmore box, which was basically your standard box set on steroids, this really was a unique, unprecedented type of release. The only thing I can imagine being any bigger would be the discovery of a heretofore unknown stash of mutlitracks from the second half of 1970.

But this is just my opinion- by no means am I griping. I don't have a horse in this race, because I never considered buying it for a second. I am quite content with what I already have from E'72.

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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Jan 27, 2011 11:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

I agree Cliff.
The thing of it is...
I don't believe the band has any control over it.
They sold their rights to Rhino. If I understand correctly, Rhino has all decision making control of the entire vault for the next 10 years. (- however many years it has ben since the contract was signed.)

This marketing decision was made entirely by Rhino.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Jan 27, 2011 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

Right on. The Grateful Dead used to market their own products. The scandal surrounding the Fillmore West 69 boxset would not likely be repeated after the deluge of complaints about the thieves on EBAY. Rhino records just doesn't give a shit about ethics. So fuck them...

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Poster: advokat Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

Problem? No problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPVMYDrbrCo

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

ah the joy of the new and improved Capitalistic Grateful Dead.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

At what point in their career do you think they turned to each other and said 'Fuck, man, we could make some money doing this'? Because it's a damned certainty that at some point they did.

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Poster: advokat Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

Rock Scully's recent comment is illuminating:

Q. Was there a favorite aspect to managing the Grateful Dead?

A. I'd say establishing their publishing. In the old days, songs were three minutes long and artists got paid by number of tracks, not length of songs. We were first to record longer songs and got screwed on deals only paying for six to seven songs, instead of 12-14. So I spoke to [Monterey] Jazz Festival musicians, who told me they got paid per minute. I then renegotiated, making a state-of-the-art deal everyone copied.

"Quadlibet for Tender Feet" anyone? Ice-Nine indeed (RIP Kurt and Jerry)
http://www.carmelmagazine.com/digital/index.shtml

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

It's fairly illuminating also that Scully and Kantner now embrace and are embraced by a magazine like Carmel.

One generation got old
One generation got sold...

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Poster: advokat Date: Jan 27, 2011 3:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

...you think it's funny turning rebellion into money?


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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 3:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

The poster said we earn more than you.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

apparently not early on enough :)

(i mean, Bob's kids might evev have to attend a community college)

i could care less what they do. but I am beginning to wish i bought a box set or two so i could resell it on my ebay account. the little goodies inside mean absolutely nothing to me

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 27, 2011 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

I think in many ways this is "key" to the mythology we've discussed (and in some respect have returned to in this thread) so often.

I have outlined so many times that I grabbed onto their myth (again, intended or accidental--biz model or artefact) right off; it's what motivated me to preach about "my band", and their moral superiority over all others, and gloat when I could show my friends and former friends (the ones that stopped coming round to hear me drone on about the DEAD...AGAIN!) "look! I got these cool little 45 sized records--demos!--from 'my' band cause they are trying to do it 'right' by starting THEIR own record company so 'we' don't get ripped off, and quality is sky-high and because the really do CARE bout me, and NOT profits!"

So, maybe it was sometime after Mickey's dad, after the failed record co attempt, sometime in the 70s?

Dunno--but good question.

And a great big Good Afternoon! to you, kind sir.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

Well, I know that we live in morally ambiguous times, but I can still tell the difference between marketing and lying.

If - and that's a big if - false statements were made along the lines of "we can't take orders right now because our system is screwed up," and "the set has sold out" - even though clearly any number of reservations had not been consummated - then that's not just marketing, it's outright lying, and yes I believe that is a problem.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 9:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

Is there actual proof that the system was never really screwed up? I tend to think that fuck up is almost always a much more likely explanation than conspiracy.

I grant that there's a difference between declaring an intention to buy and actually depositing the funds in Rhino's account but there's no lie involved in declaring the run 'sold out' if they've made their target order number. Fairly standard practice again I'd say, and no problem.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 27, 2011 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

RLO beat me to it!

Yup, the folks, and there are far too many, IMHO, always looking for conspiracies, etc., simply don't account for the fundamental "dumbass quotient" attributable to the vast majority of the human race. I know there are "bad people", and some of them may even wish to do me harm, indirectly, but in general, most things (trivial, day-to-day shit that is) that happen are on account of stupidity, or benign errors, or glitches than some masterplan by various individuals available to "blame".

I see the role I've played time after time, causing some small harm without intending to, blah, blah, blah, and it leaves my absurdly Polly Anna-ish Outlook largely intact.

Of course, that could just be cause so much crap has happened it's easier to shrug and move on than to assign blame, keep score, and fuel the tiny little fires that this amounts to...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

I agree with pretty much everything you say but I'd extend it from the trivial day-to-day shit into the great big world-changing shit as well. Most (all?) of the non-natural disasters that have befallen the benighted human race have come about as a result of the mites and the mighty being tripped up by hubris.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 27, 2011 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

You got that right--after reading the word "shit" so many times in our two posts I am reminded that one implication of the Freudian Paradigm may hold true: if we all relaxed, and were afforded one cleansing morning "event" (in the name of Forum Decorum, I refrain from using the aforementioned term), ie, "the day-to-day aspect", perhaps the larger, "world changing events" (ahem) would occur less frequently.

And be considerably less painful, I daresay.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 11:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

A smooth and easy production is definitely to be preferred over sudden explosions or effortful straining to no good effect.


Maybe life is shit after all.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jan 27, 2011 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

For the record, I am not one that goes around looking for conspiracies, nor am I married to this theory.

It didn't cross my mind until the combined one-two punch of receiving the "here's your link to order your reserved copy" e-mail followed immediately by reading "it's sold out!" That just left a bad taste in my mouth. I can see them counting the preorders as sales, but the way this played out simply reminded me too much of rule #1 of the short con: urgency! urgency! urgency! "Act now or you miss out~!" Don't give the mark time to think about it ...

I think they did give us something like two weeks to reply to that link, but I bet most of us didn't need that long. I already ordered my copy, and I will be first in line for the Fall 1973 tour box.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jan 27, 2011 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

"If - and that's a big if - "

composition A-/B+;
comprehension D

Yes, I just graded your post.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 27, 2011 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

You're not qualified.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 27, 2011 10:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

>I tend to think that fuck up is almost always a much more likely explanation than conspiracy.

I think this is a law of nature.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 27, 2011 11:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

I believe that Rhino/GDP honestly underestimated the demand for this product at its high price. The Fillmore West 10 disc box took almost an entire month to sell out at 10,000 units. I believe most official releases only sell about 20,000 units max...

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jan 27, 2011 12:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the moral compass

That begins to make some sense. I didn't know that the 1969 box sold so slowly.